Free-will vs Pre-determination (poser-5)
From the Bhakti List Archives
• September 3, 2002
SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.
Forenote:- “The most ignorant man is happy, and
likewise the most enlightened man – each in his own
fashion. But those who are midway, being neither
completely ignorant nor completely enlightened, are
wretched.”
-Vidura to Maitreya (Srimad Bhagavatham)
The analysis continues:-
Q-5 :-
# If everything proceeds as per the lordÂ’s designs,
does it not amount to
pre-determination? Then where is the room for free
will?
The answer given:- (Sri SriramÂ’s mail)
Yes, and No. In the larger context, everything
proceeds according to Lord's
plan. He has plans for the good and He has plans for
the evil. And so things
take their own course. But it is the individual's
actions that determine the
plan he/she gets. The Lord does not *force* a
decision. He provides His
advice and support if asked for, stands back and lets
us choose. Just like
He did for Arjuna.
Our opinion:-
If it be said that ‘everything proceeds as per God’s
planÂ’, it is nothing but accepting determinism!! If
larger plans are assumed to be well-established, it
follows that smaller plans are subsidiary to the
larger plans –ie., actions at the smaller (micro)
level are tuned so as to fall in line with the plans
at the macro level!
Keeping ‘our’ opinions aside, shall we see what the
texts have got to say in this issue?
To begin with
Lets ask some questions.
Q-1 :- Does every thing in creation proceed in a
planned way?
Answer:-
Seems so.
Maitreya tells Vidura in srimad
Bhagavatham;-(book-iii, chap –ii)
“The present universe is but one of a series of worlds
that are past and of worlds that are to be. The cosmic
energy alternates between periods of potentiality and
of expression. The phase of potentiality is known as
dissolution; the phase of expression is known as
creation.”
Similar idea is expressed in other places in Srimad
Bhagavatham. Periodical happenings like creation,
progression and dissolution are taking place with
precision and plan. That is, if some event takes place
in the process of creation, it becomes possible to
deduce what will follow there after and so on.
Looking through our finite understanding, we, the
mortals with little knowledge are able to simulate and
take a peep into future to say that an asteroid is
going to hit us straight in the year 2019 or a comet,
(swift-tuttle) is going to bombard us in the year
2125. We have seen the such calculations have come
true in the past, like the collision of a comet
(shoemaker-levy) with jupiter.
If by some chance the asteroid that is expected to hit
in 2019 does not actually make the collision, it will
be seen that something else must have come into play
to change its course. That something might have evaded
our detection but must have been there in the scheme
of Macro/ cosmic occurrences. By narrating this all
what we want to tell is that the occurrences at the
cosmic level proceed in a methodical and in a
programmed way, even though we are not able to cognise
them.
But Massive Intelligence that He is, He contains in
Himself all that is to come. He spoke to Brahma in the
beginning, ‘I command thee, again create the world, as
thou hast often done in times of past.Â’ It is like
pressing the button of creation and things start
happening in methodical orderliness. All that is
needed to stir up the Lord who is resting in the
cosmic ocean with consciousness fully awake, is to be
somewhere near His vibration level of the satwa.
This must explain
- the ‘Ari-thuyil’ of the lord.
-This must explain
- why He is regarded simultaneously as the spectator
and the actor,
- why He is not attributed with activity though he is
the fountain of all activities.
Q-2:- If determinism is true, why canÂ’t we know about
it?
Because it calls for an understanding at another
dimension, namely, the fourth dimension of space and
time. The problem is that we cannot look ‘back’ or
‘ahead’ with our present level capability of
three-dimensional outlook. It is like how our world
will look like for a two-dimensional being.
Assuming that a two-dimensional being which lives in
the surface of water happens to see a stick being
lowered into the water. The stick, thick at one end
and tapering at another, if gradually lowered, will be
perceived by the being as a ‘disc’ that suddenly
appeared (born) on the water surface and grew in size
and became extinct suddenly, in the way how it was
‘born’. The being had no way of knowing about the
stick above the surface and below the surface of
water. We, the human beings are with the same kind of
limitations to our understanding in matters pertaining
to the fourth dimension.
Q-3:- Then how to know about it?
By looking for clues in texts.
Fourth dimensional consciousness (trikaala darsitaa)is
something that ancient seers were fond of developing
by yogic powers.
That the Lord has that power is beyond dispute.
When He told Arjuna that He knows all His previous
janmas and those of Arjuna (BG 4-5)it only confirms
that He knows all the future janmas that He is going
to take (as also of others)which once again makes it
clear that from creation to dissolution, everything is
decided. (Needless to talk about godÂ’s ability to know
everything. For argumentÂ’s sake, we have to say like
this)
Once again in verse 7-26 of the BG, the Lord
reiterates His knowledge about things that are going
to happen –another justification for pre-determined
destiny.
In other words, the action of a jiva that is going to
take place has already been known which follows that
such action can not be independent but be a part of
the grand design.
Q-4:- can we prove determinism by logical reasoning?
Yes. Determinism is possible from creation to
dissolution till such a time(!) that Time exists.
In the explanation of creation as given by Maitreya,
the universe is conceived as a space-time continuum in
which events take place. The division into past and
present has no analogy in space-time order. In fact it
is fallacious to say that events take place. They are
just there. We only come across them. It is a voyage
across the space-time continuum for the jiva which is
blemishless and in the nature of Brahman ‘na jaayathE
mriyathE va kadhachithuÂ’.
But in the course of the journey when the jiva keeps
thinking more and more that ‘it’ experiences the
events, makes the events happen etc, that it makes
things complicated for itself.
This voyage can be depicted as space –time chart
(found in patanjaliÂ’s or Tantrics? We are unable to
quote the source) of Mahakala and Kalakrama.
Mahakala is the Transcedental Time starting from
creation of events (we say here, events, because
actions are related to space and time – for easy
understanding of this let us remember that we are
supposed to begin any/ every action with a sankalpa
with reference to place and time
–jumbhudweepE,bharatha varshE etc- as if to make it to
the records that such and such an action is done at
this point of time as a precedent to this /that action
or as result of this and that action)
And kalakrama is the sequential or empirical time
which tells about a particular point in the scheme of
Mahakala.
It is seen that mahakala stretches from the first
event ‘e’ that happened in time ‘t’ and ends up in e-n
at t-n.(with dissolution of Time-space)
As per karma theory, an event (say) e-5 at t-5
(kalakrama) is the result of e-4 that might have
happened at t-4 or even at t-3. In that case there is
determinism of e-5 at e-4 itself. The series of e
types and /at t types in the mahakala is what you call
the grand design which proceed as determined ones.
At the level of kalakrama, the e is just an event
impregnated with our abhilashas, efforts or what ever
you call/ attribute. At this level the effort is dear
to you as of your own making. But that it is only a
part of the design at mahakala.
This space –Time chart also explains how programming
of events for individual souls becomes possible when
they meet a collective destiny, say as happened at
Kurukshetra, Titanic or at WTC. It is marvelous
alignment of countless life-types to culminate in a
single type of occurrence. When such alignments can no
longer be held, the curtains are pulled down and
dissolution sets in.
Q-5:- How to justify this notion?
Bhagavad RamanujaÂ’s prayer to the Lord harps on this
issue - of what is in store – interpreted otherwise as
sanchita and aagaami karma.
In verses 10 &11 of Sharanagathi gadhyam Ramanuja
seeks blanket- pardon (amnesty?)for all actions that
have been done and that are going to be done (kriya
mANan, karishya maNamams cha) and the vipareetha
gyanam that had prevailed and that is going to
envelop (adhyapi varthamanam, varthishya mANam)him.
RamanujaÂ’s desperation to wriggle himself out of the
coils of karma of the three types are pointers to the
very non-escapability from the karma-Guna combination
that are pre-determinants of happenings in oneÂ’s life.
Someone raised questions about the relation between
the three types of karma and freewill.
There is no escape from prarabhdha or operative karma,
whose seed has sprung up and whose machinery has been
set in motion towards their fruition. Freewill has
little to do in mitigating this.
Sanchita or acumulating karma pertains to fruits that
are still lying latent ‘like seeds stocked up in a
granary for fruitionÂ’. Anytime they may be given
‘life’ and become operational. Aagaami pertains to
actions yet to be/contemplated to be done. Ramanuja
refers to all these in the gadhyam.
Relating these to the space -time chart discussed
above, there seems to exist some scope for freewill to
change them for the better.
Bur our observation leads us to tell that such changes
are not possible unless otherwise indicated in the
grand design of Maha kaala.
Reason no-1:-
If these can be changed by our freewill, Ramanuja need
not have asked for blanket pardon. By correcting
oneself at the Guna –mix, one could have changed it.
But that doesnÂ’t seem to be under our control. That is
why, the prayer for pardon from an external agency
(God).
If it be said that Ramanuja asked for pardon as a
prapannan, it is replied that a prapannan need not
worry about these as they stand nullified the moment
prapatti is done.
It then follows that only god alone waives these
karma, not a jiva by means of his free-will/ action.
(To the question from Sow lakshmi whether there exists
any possibility to have freewill without being
connected with karma, our reply is that such a
situation grants Brahman-hood.
Scriptures speak of only two scenes for the jiva-
bondage and freedom from bondage. As long as in
bondage, freewill has no place. If freed from bondage,
you will not bother about freewill. That is a
condition of ‘Aham vishwam
bhuvanamapyabhawaamÂ’(Tattriya upa)
Reason no-2:-
God alone is empowered to interfere in the working of
karma-Guna sambhandam, (dealt with in the mail on
Gita). The popular saying that one can win over
destiny (vidhiyai madhiyaal vellalaam) must be added
with a conditional clause, namely, ‘provided destiny
makes way for itÂ’.(adharku vidhiyum edam koduththaal)
We have ample proof to say that Vidhi stands for
determinism in NDP.
#’avaravar vidhi vazhi adaya nindranarE’ (TVM –1-1-5)
# ‘Vaikuntham puguvadu mannavar vidhiyE..
‘vidhi vagai opugundanar ‘ endru…’ (TVM 10-9-9& 10)
the above one is said to have sprung from the azhwar
in parama bhakti – the dharshanam blessed upon him as
per vidhi / determinism/ or facilitated by GodÂ’s
grace?
Q-6:- Are there other sources to validate determinism?
Yes, ‘the science of light’, popularly kwon as
jyothisha is entirely dealing with time-space
continuum.
Jyothisha, (mundaka upanishad specifically asserts
that this is one of the basic, fundamental sciences of
vidya), a Vedanga developed by Vedic seers has well
laid rules and regualtions to ‘indicate’ (not predict-
for further details, refer Bheeshma-yudhishtra
sambhaashana, mahabharatham, Anusashana parvam) the
series of happenings at three karma levels of
kalakrama.
A clarification/forenote on jyothisha:-
Vedic sages were, by and large, men of practical
vision with creative ability. Sages like Parasara,
Vyasa, Jaimini, Bhrigu, suka and others were said to
have discussed /developed principles of Jyothisha and
discussed lives of many beings yet to be born, which
were documented as nAdi manuscripts.
They never taught the people of their time to bewail
over difficulties. They taught them to be up and
doing. They laid stress on doing oneÂ’s karma
dispassionately, and used Jyothisha for commencing
work at auspicious times for the success of the
actions. Their predictive jyothisha is an appreciation
of the academically possible/viable cognisability of
Future in the Mahakala.
Proofs from Jyothisha:-
# the birth chart calculated to depict the position of
planets at a particular second(s)is capable of telling
the previous as well as the next birth of the person.
The 5 th house is studied to tell about the next birth
& the happenings therein and the 9th house is studied
to tell about the previous birth. (jathaka phala
Deepika).
Separate horoscopes can be constructed for the
previous and next birth in this way. (a proof for
determinism)
# the nAdi astrology is brimming with lot of inputs in
understanding the working of karma and freewill. There
are some loose ends in relating some concepts in
astrology, but they are /may be due to our
limitations.
There is one particular aspect that has relevance to
the coming into operation of the sanchita karma:-
We find at times predictions going wrong which make us
believe that determinism is not 100% operational. In
addition to this, of all the known nAdi manuscripts,
saptharishi nAdi alone talks about propitiatory
actions to reap specific results. Such a possibility
also undermines determinism. Debates are going in
scholarly circles on this issue.
In our humble understanding, we attribute this anomaly
to destinyÂ’s design to make alignments at certain
intervals.
To understand this better, let us take up the present
position of planet saturn which is said to have
transited to Gemini according to Drik ganitha, whereas
it continues to be in Vrishabha according to Vaakhya.
It is presumed that the whole lot of lakhs of persons
born in this cusp will face possibilities of
re-alignments-paving way for sanchita karma to fit in
the scheme of things as and if necessary. This
observation is the result certain level of study into
the subject and any further elaboration is beyond the
scope of this mail.(interested readers may write to us
for details)
It is like the video game example that appeared in the
list. There are time warps as one proceeds but unless
the player cleverly identifies them, he can not shift
to a higher level. Similarly the anomalies arising
from the differences in the position of the planets
gives a breather to the cosmic powers to make changes
in the scheme by accommodating sanchita karma. We have
proofs for this.
All that we wish to say is sanchita too can not be
controlled by freewill.It/part of it comes into
fruition in the present birth itself if vidhi makes
provision for it.
# another aspect of determinism that actually prompted
this writer to take a dip into the subject is the
shock that she experienced, while in the course of
studying nAdi manuscripts, it was found that she
didnÂ’t even enjoy the minimal freewill in naming her
own child! Yes, invariably all nAdi manuscripts in
Tamil show the proper-nouns which baffles scholars.
This must have become possible by seers with yogic
powers who can peep into future.
The worst part of the shock was that this writer had
that name in mind (sort of incubation) for nearly 7
years before the child was born – a name that is at
the core of one of the main two concepts that
Ramanuja differed from Shankara- the name that
fascinated her due to her acquaintance with (some of)
RamanujaÂ’s philosophy.
It now seems to show that not only the name is
pre-determined but also the knowledge that preceded
the decision has not been reaped by her on her own
volition. Even the less than fistful of knowledge
that one must come to posses is pre-decided!(Srimad
Bhagavatham)
The initial shock gave place to helplessness, because
like sri sriram and many others who refuse to
undermine the scope for freewill, this writer also
underwent that mamakaaram. But just think about it.
When your body, the happenings and your own(?) jivan
are not yours, what use in telling that the will is
yours?
It is in this moment of helplessness that Gita comes
(fits in) to give us a clue of Hope.
The way shown by Gita is ‘surrender’ which is seen as
an act of freewill.
I beg to differ here for the last time.
Verse 18-62 speaks about surrender. Unto whom?
To the one who resides within (the preceding verse
18-61)
The one who resides within is ‘Brhaamayan’-the real
One who is controlling you. All these days you didnÂ’t
seem to have identified Him. At least now you know
that He is the doer and therefore surrender all your
ego, mamakaaram, the so-called freewill etc to him.
Whether one had known this or not, it has always been
that He made things happen. Now after knowing Him in
you, acknowledge it –this seems to be the message.
But the ultimate message lies in the last verse, in
Sanchayan’s ‘TheLivu’
That where the Lord rules as YogEshwaran and where
Arjuna stands ready, there is victory etc. (yathra
yOgEshwara KrishnO, yathra partho dhanurdhra:)
The oft-repeated explanation for this is to see the
two as nara-narayana.
We try to qualify this further.
Look at the adjective to Arjuna – the Dhanur dhari.
YogEshwaran is present in every being (refer the verse
18-61&62). He is ever ready to help us. Only that we
have to be fully equipped like Arjuna. Equipped in
knowledge, in action and the accompanying necessary
attitudes, one must be in a state of preparedness.
He will run the show as the anchor –as the sarathy and
lead you to success –to neeti.
He disseminated the know-how and preparedness by His
will through sathsangh and other means.
Be awake and listen to His voice.
Your state of helplessness will be changed into
hopefulness..
.Poliga poliga poliga ..poyitru valluyir chbhamÂ…..
Kulam thaangu saathigal naalilum kheezh ehindu,
eththanai
Nalam thaan elaatha shandaala shandaalargalagilum,
Valam thaangu chakaraththannal mani vannarkaL endruL
Kalandhar, ADIYAR THAM ADIYAR EM ADIGALE
-aana
-jayasree nAmadhEya
adiyavaL.
Quote of the mail:-
“Knowledge brings freedom, but the mere intellect
gives no knowledge of Thee.
Those who devote themselves to Thy service come to
know thee by Thy grace.
May I be even the least of Thy devotees,
and may I devote my life to Thy service alone!Â’
-BrahmaÂ’s prayer to Krishna in Srimad Bhagavatham.
--------concluded--------
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