Dialogue on Hinduism - Chapter 3; Post 4
From the Bhakti List Archives
Parthasarati Dileepan • Thu May 02 1996 - 17:42:57 PDT
Post 4 of 14
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Chapter 3 of 13 of "A Dialogue on Hinduism,"
By Sri. V.N. GOPALA DESIKAN,
Published by Sri Visishtadvaita Research Centre, C/O Sri
Ahobila Mutt, 66, Dr. Rangachari Road, Madras 600 018, 1990
If you find this series informative please make a donation
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The posts in this series are likely to be long.
Therefore, please print these posts and read them
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-- P. Dileepan
====Start of Chapter 3 of 13 from Sri Gopala Desikan's book=======
Chapter 3
The 'Doctrine Special' of Visishtadvaita
Q. I have heard of the "Doctrine Special" of our
Sampradava. But first let us start with
fundamentals.
What is an authority (pramana)?
A. An authority is something from which we learn
truths. We consider the Vedas, as the basic
authority.
We also use logic and arguments to arrive at the
truths, in addition to learning from the Vedas.
Such things from which we learn the truths or
arrive at the truths, are called authority
(pramana).
Q. What are the authorities or sources (pramana) for
understanding things?
A. These are three in number, and are as follows:-
1. What we understand directly by our senses,
like what we see with our eyes or what we
hear with our ears. This is called
Pratyaksha.
2. Inference or logic (Anumana) - That is, by
seeing or understanding a thing, we
logically infer something else, although it
is not actually seen by us. For example, if
we see smoke coming, we infer there is
fire. So this is called one of the sources of
knowledge (anumana).
3. Sabda (Or sound). We accept the Vedas,
Smritis, Itihasas, Puranas as authority (so
long as they do not contradict the Vedas).
It is from these that generally the various systems
of philosophy are developed by logical
deductions and arguments.
Q. Can you describe this further?
A. A detailed description or discussion of these will
be difficult to understand. I will only briefly
indicate the nature of each of these.
Talking of the first source, i.e. perception by
senses, we have to be careful that our perception
is correct and it is not wrong. For example,
seeing a rope from a distance, we may mistake it
for a serpent. This is wrong perception.
Similarly, in hot summer, on a tar road, seeing
from a distance, you may think that there is
water. This again is wrong perception. We have
to guard against such wrong perceptions.
Q. In talking of perception by senses, what are the
senses?
A. The senses or Indriyas are of two kinds: the
senses of knowledge (Jnana Indriyas) and the
senses of action (Karma Indriyas).
Q. What are the senses of knowledge (Jnana
Indriyas)?
A. These are five in number: 1. Eye 2. Ear 3. Nose
4. Mouth and 5. Skin (on the body).
Q. What are the second set of senses or Indriyas?
A. These are called the five senses of action or
karma (Karma Indriyas).
Q. What are they?
A. These are: 1. Tongue 2. Hand 3. Leg 4. Anus
and 5. The Organ of reproduction.
So, we have to be careful that what is understood
through the senses of knowledge is correct.
We should also remember at a later time what we
had seen or heard earlier. This is also accepted
as an authority, since it is only remembering of
an authority, which was understood through our
senses earlier.
Q. What is an illusion or maya?
A. We see a rope and wrongly think it is a serpent.
We see a shell and wrongly think it is silver.
This is called illusion.
We shall study this at a later stage in greater
detail.
Q. Can you explain further about the second source
of knowledge, "Inference" (anumana)?
A. We need not go into details for our present study.
Q. What exactly is Sabda?
A. As you know, Sabda means sound. Sound
evolves or develops into words, and then
sentences. The Vedas are accepted as the basic
authority. Along with this, we also accept the
Brahma Sutra and Bhagavad Gita as authorities.
We also accept the Itihasas (Ramayana and
Mahabharata), the Puranas, the Smritis and the
Vaishnava Agamas as authorities.
However, there is one important condition and
that is, that anything in these works, which are
not in tune with the Vedas or which are
contradictory to Vedas, are not accepted as
authority.
Q. What is the ultimate aim or objective of the
human being?
A. The ultimate aim or objective of the human being
is to attain salvation or moksha.
Q. What is salvation or moksha?
A. We human beings are a repeatedly born, come
into this world and then die. Thus, there is a
cycle of births and deaths. In this life, we
commit so many sins, we undergo so many
hardships. We do not follow the code of conduct
prescribed by Sastras and we go on committing
sins.
Salvation means, release from this cycle of births
and deaths and attainment of moksha or mukti.
Q. What are the things we should know to achieve
salvation in due course?
A We have to learn five things (Artha Panchaka)
and these are as follows:
1. The object of attaimnent is Sriman
Narayana, who is permanently associated
with Lakshmi. So, the nature of God.
2. The nature of our Soul or Jivatma.
3. The means or the methods to be adopted
by us, for attaining Moksha at the end of
this life.
4. The exact nature of Moksha or
Paramapada.
5. The hindrances that arise in attaining our
goal of Moksha at the end of this life; and
how to get over these hindrances or
difficulties.
Q. I have also heard the term "tattva". What exactly
is this? How many tattvas are there?
A. "Tattva" means that which is real.
There are three tattvas or reals. These are:
1. Jivatma. It is also called as Chit, Soul,
Self, Atma and Chetana. It is sentient i.e.,
has knowledge.
2. Achetana or matter or achit. It is non-
sentient. i.e., does not have knowledge.
3. Iswara or the Supreme Lord.
We will discuss the three tattvas, in detail, later.
Q. What is the most important principle or doctrine
of our sampradaya?
A. The most important principle (pradhana
pratitantra) is the body/soul relationship (sarira-
sariri bhava or sarira - atma bhava) between
sentient (Chetana), non-sentient (achetana); and
Iswara.
The Brahman or Iswara is the soul and the other
two reals (tattvas),chetana and achetana, form His
body.
Q. Please explain this further. How do you define
body?
A. You can say that the body has legs and hands.
The body of a serpent does not have any hand.
Similarly, the shape and size of one body are
different from that of another. A tree has a
different body. An animal has a different body
from that of a bird. The body of an elephant is
different from the body of a mosquito. So, you
cannot give physical characteristics to define a
body.
There are three characteristics which decide what
the body is.
Q. What are these characteristics?
A. The first one is that the body is supported by the
soul. The body exists from the time of the soul
entering into it, in the mother's womb. The body
continues and perishes or dies, only when the
soul leaves the body.
In other words, the body is supported by the
soul. As long as the soul remains in the body,
the soul supports the body. This is the first
characteristic of the body. Even in a state of
dreamless sleep, the body continues to exist. So,
the soul fully support the body.
Q. What is the second characteristic?
A. The second characteristic is that the soul also
controls or rules over the body.
When the body is awake, the body is controlled
by the will of the soul. The soul thus rules or
controls the body. The body acts as per the will
of the soul.
Q. What is the third one?
A. The third one is that the body exists only for the
fulfilment of the desire of the soul. The soul
through the mind, desires something and then the
body acts accordingly. So, the body exists only
for the purpose of the soul.
These three govern the relationship between the
body and the soul.
Q. So, what is the significance of body/soul
relationship?
A. The soul performs the following three functions,
over the body:
(1) Supporting (adharatva)
(2) Controlling (niyantrutva)
(3) Mastership (Seshitva).
So, the soul is, in relation to the body, as
follows:
(1) Supporter (adhara)
(2) Controller (niyanta)
(3) Master (Seshi).
So, the body is
(1) being supported by the soul; (adheyatva)
(2) being controlled by the soul; (niyamyatva)
(3) existing for the pleasure of the soul
(seshatva).
Q. Can the above three qualifications be taken to
define the body/soul relationship?
A. Yes.
Q. How do you then conclude that by logic,
Brahman or Iswara is the soul of all chetana and
achetana?
A. You take all the three factors, which I have
mentioned above and apply the principle to
Brahman versus the chetana and achetana:
(1) All these chetana and achetana are
supported by Brahman.
(2) Secondly, in their waking state, they are
controlled or ruled by Iswara.
(3) Thirdly, all these exist only for His
pleasure.
Thus, all the three characteristics or factors which
determine the relationship between the soul and
the body, are present in the case of Brahman or
Iswara versus the entire, chetana and achetana.
Hence the fundamental doctrine of our
philosophy is that Iswara is the soul of all
chetanas or Jivatmas. Iswara is also the soul of
all achetana i.e. the fundamental Matter and its
evolutions.
In other words, all the Jivatmas are the body of
Iswara. Similarly, Matter and its evolutions also
are the body of Iswara. This is the basic doctrine
of our religion and philosophy.
Q. What you have said now becomes clear to me.
You have also been saying that the fundamental
authority for us is the Veda. Can you prove the
Sarira - Sariri bhava by quoting from the Vedas?
A. We have a full section called "Antaryami
Brahmana" in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and
also similar passages in the Subala Upanishad.
These specifically and clearly say that Iswara is
the soul and the Jivatma and Matter are His
body. The following are some of the passages:-
"He is dwelling in the earth, is within the earth."
"His body is the earth",
"His body is the water",
"His body is the fire"
"His body is the air"
"His body is the sun"
"His body is the moon and the stars"
"His body is ether"
"His body is the light"
"His body is speech"
"His body is the eye"
"His body is the ear"
"His body is the mind"
"His body is the skin"
"His body is the soul or Jivatma"
"His body is the intellect"
"His body is matter"
"His body is death"
"He is the internal soul of all beings"
"He is the divine Lord Narayana. He is the soul
of all"
There are many such passages.
Q. So, am I correct in saying that the fundamental
basis for our philosophy is the body/soul
relationship?
A. Yes, We have established body/soul relationship
between the Paramatma and Jivatma/achetana in
two ways:
(1) By logic and argument, we have said that
Brahman supports and controls the
Jivatrna/ achetana and it is for His purpose
that the Jivatma/achetana is there. So, the
Jivatma/ achetana is the body and Brahman
is the soul.
(2) Secondly, we have also quoted several
passages from the Vedas, which clearly
and explicitly state that Brahman is the
soul; and the Jivatma, the matter and other
evolutions are all His body.
Q. You say that Ramanuja perfected our system of
philosophy and body/soul relationship. Then
were there earlier acharyas who propounded this?
A. Yes. There were earlier acharyas like
Bodhayana, Dramida and Tanka. But
unfortunately their works have been lost and are
not available now.
Q. Have the Alwars mentioned about the body/soul
relationship?
A. Nammalwar has explicitly mentioned this. He
says that the Lord is present everywhere, as the
soul in the body.
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