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Countering criticism of Sripad Ramanuja's approach to Vedanta ...

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Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy • June 28, 2002 


Dear Vaishnavas,

Hare Krishna.
Dandavat Pranams.

I just came across this disturbing posting which seems to be wrongly criticial of Sripad Ramanujacharya's application of Vedanta to bhakti and prapatti. The author seems to be saying that Udaiyavar has taken sharanagati from Tamil paasurams and is then inserting this into Vedanta which is otherwise absent of bhakti as sharanagati. In this way, this gentlemen seems to be downplaying the essential love for the Lord as expounded in Vedanta.

How may we counter this ?

I have placed the relevant articles below for contextual purposes and have highlighted the more crucial sections in bold.



Vaishnava dasanudasan
R. Jai Simman
Singapore




from meykandar@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:41:19 +0800
>    From: "Dr.K.Loganathan" 
> Subject: Ramanuja 2-2
> 
> 2-2
> 
> Vedaartta SaGkraham of Ramanuja
> 
> ­Ã¡Á¡Ûfâý §Å¾¡÷ò¾ .íìÃ?õ
> 
> 
> ¯¼ø¸Ç¢ø «¨¼ì¸ôÀð¼ ¿¢¨Ä, f£ÅÛìÌ «Åý ±ó¾ ¯¼Ä¢ø §º÷óÐûÇ¡§É¡ «ó¾ ¯¼§Ä ¾¡É¡¸ ¿õÀ¢ Å¡ú¾¨Ä ¯Õš츢Ţθ¢ÈÐ. («ó¾ó¾ ­É ¯¼ÖìÌ ²üÈ Å¢ÕôÒ, ¦ÅÚôÒ¸Ù¼ý Å¡ú¸¢È¡ý) ­ó¾ô ¦À¡ö ¿õÀ¢ì¨¸, ¾Å¢÷ì¸ ÓÊ¡Áø ±øġŨ¸ô ÀÂí¸¨Ç, ¯Ä¸ Å¡ú쨸¢ø ¯ûǨŠÀüÈ¢ì ¦¸¡ñÎ ÅÕ¸¢ýÈÐ. ÓØ §Å¾¡ó¾ ÅÊÅÓõ, ­ó¾ À¢ÈÅ¢ô ÀÂí¸¨Çô §À¡ì¸§Å ÓÂÖ¸¢ÈÐ.  «ôÀÂí¸Ç¢ý «Æ¢¨Å º¡¾¢ì¸ §Å¾¡ó¾ º¡ò¾¢Ãí¸û ¸£úÅÕÅÉÅü¨È §À¡¾¢ì¸¢ýÈÉ:
> 
> 1) ¯¼¨Äì ¸¼ó¾¾¡¸§Å f£Å¡òÁÉ¢ý ­Âü¨¸ ¯ûÇÐ.
> 
> 2) f£Å¡òÁÉ¢ý ¾ý¨Á¸û
> 
> 3) f£Å¡òÁ¡ì¸û, f¼ôÀ¢ÃÀïºõ ­Ãñ¼¨ÉÔõ ¯ûÇ¢ÕóÐ ­ÂìÌõ («¼ì¸¢Â¡Ùõ) ÀÃÁ¡òÁ¡Å¢ý º¡ÃÁ¡É ­Âü¨¸ò ¾ý¨Á ( ¦º¡åÀõ)
> 
> 4) ÀÃÁ¡òÁ¡Å¢ý ̽í¸û
> 
> 5) ºÃ½¡¸¾ô Àì¾¢ô ÀÃÁ¡òÁò  ¾¢Â¡¿õ
> 
> 6) «ò¾¨¸Â ¾¢Â¡¿õ «¨¼Å¢ìÌõ ­ÄìÌ
> 
> §Å¾¡ó¾õ, «ò¾¨¸Â ¾¢Â¡¿ Å¡ú쨸¨Â «¨¼Âì ÜÊ ­Ä쨸 ¿¡ÁȢ󾾡¸ ¬ì¸ ÓÂø¸¢ÈÐ.
> 
> The self comes to existence as the embodied and acquires a psychological nature in accordance with the body it is given to inhabit as it begins to live with the identification of self with the body. ( One lives in accordance with the likes and dislikes that comes along with the body). The self lives in this falsity unable to avoid it and be free of it and enjoys all the fruits of it actions. The whole of Vedanta seeks to free man from being bound to such  outcomes of bodily embodiment. In order to bring about the destruction of such bondage the Vedanta Sastras teach the following :
> 
> 1. The essence of self is transcendent to the physical body
> 
> 2. The atributes  of self
> 
> 3. The essence of self as the expression of Paramatma who regulates both the physical and spiritual from within as the immanent reality
> 
> 4. The attributes of Paramatma
> 
> 5. The Bakti of total self surrender and Dhyana of Paramatma
> 
> 6. The end result of such dhyana practices
> 
> Vedanta exts try to alert us with respect to what lies ahead in such a life of Dhyana
> 
> Some Questions ( Loga)
> 
> 1.) There are two issues here. One is with respect the exegetic studies of Vedanta texts, by  which I guess the Upanishads  are meant. Here itself a problem arises for there are about 108 Upanishads and it is not clear which set of Upanishads are being talked about here. For the later Upanishads are clearly Saivite VaishNavite Sakta  Yoga and so forth and which clearly show the emergence of Dravidian metaphysics into Sanskrit in the form of these Upanishads.  Let us take the Vedanta Texts to be  the 11 early Upanishads, those that are taken by Sankara  and other Acaryas and commented upon.
> 
> That the inquiry in all these Upanishads is on the essence of self , I think, quite acceptable as far I know. The same also goes for the essence of Paramatma also called Brahman etc.
> 
> While granting all these I am not sure whether Bakti as total self surrender to BEING is something these Vedanta texts mention or elaborate. Bakti as saraNaakati, as self surrender belongs essentially Tamil developments in spirituality and this is something developed during 6th cent. A.D. against the desiccation of genuine spirituality introduced by the positivistic Buddhists who developed LOGIC at the expense of deep understanding of genuine metaphysics.
> 
> Bakti arose along with Hymnology where the divine melodies combined LOVE with spirituality and through that MELTED the heart and through that spiritualized self. This was ABSENT during the Upanisadic period and very clearly Ramanuja, in enthusiasm perhaps,  is READING into the Vedanta Texts what he has learned from the Tamil Bakti poetry. This is an error in Vedanta exegetic -- reading into them what is not there in fact.
> 
> 2) The second concerns the IMPLICATION in saying that the Vedanta Sastra teach the above and through that makes possible the destruction of worldly bondage.
> 
> The question is : can't a person WITHOUT studying these Vedanta texts FREE himself from the Worldly ties? What is much more important than the study of sastra is the study of self in its existential involvement . It is such an understanding of self that would free itself from the worldly and gain entry into the divine that is always there. Yes ,  man begins with the physical and when he studies and learns about the physical world including his own physicalistic nature , then at a certain point in his development, he begins to recognize his self as distinct from the physical body. As I have said elsewhere this begins when he begins  to SEE hermeneutically ,  sees himself as a text the deep structure of which is the self . Then  when the self itself is 
> taken as a TEXT in turn and studied then it would dawn that BEING stands as the deep structure there and so forth.
> 
> So what is important is EXISTENTIAL studies and not so much the sastras. These sastras may in fact be an impediment to genuine and free inquiry into self.
> 
> As they say in Tamil: eedduc curakkay kaRikuu utavaatu: the pumpkin in the books will not allow itself to be cooked into a meal.

 From:Dr. K. Loganathan
>      To: meykandar@yahoogroups.com
>      Cc: akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com ;
>      agamicpsychology@egroups.com ;
>      tamil@tamil.net ;
>      tamil_araichchi_vaddam@yahoogroups.com
>      Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:14
>      PM
>      Subject: Re: [meykandar] Re: [tamil]
>      Re: [akandabaratam] Re: [tamil] Re:
>      The Dynamic of PersonalIdentity ( part
>      4)
>      Dear S.T
>
>      Let me add to this list the marvelous
>      Irupaa Irupatu by AruNandi. You must
>      see how brilliantly he queries
>      Meykandar, his Guru . It was such a
>      challenge and also a pleasure to
>      translate and write a commentary on
>      it.and which is avaibale in World
>      Saivism Campus. Despite its brilliance
>      it will be a financial disaster if
>      some publishers venture to publish it.
>      Even my epoch making of Sumero-Tamil
>      books like Sirbiyam and so forth will
>      not be appreciated by the Tamil
>      scholars now.
>      
>
>      Hinduism provides for questioning and
>      it is our fault not to use it to the
>      maximum. The Advaitins are lost in
>      Deep Sleep and will not stand any
>      questioning of Sankara. The
>      VaishNavites are very busy eulogizing
>      Ramanuja and showering namaskars .
>
>      I do admire these great figures but
>      respect them by questioning seriously
>      what they say. To be taken as worthy
>      of deep questioning is the greatest
>      tribute we can pay and I follow here
>      AruNandi certainly one of the greatest
>      philosophers of India.
>      .
>
>      You have raised a very valid questions
>      to our educationists and which apply
>      to Asians as a whole. I hope they will
>      try to give some explanations.
>
>      Loga



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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