RE: aatma saakshaatkaaram
From the Bhakti List Archives
• June 6, 2001
Dear sri sadananda, Obviously, there is an underlying question in gita which should be asked first. As per gita is there a difference between atman and ishwara? If not why not? If so why? And as per Upanishads the same question needs to be answered. This is the first question before coming to the second listed below. You will really enjoy the book on upanisads which compare all commentaries on these questions. Obviously one needs detailed “contemplation” to assess these issues since we are talking about comparing stalwarts in the field. I think sms chari has done an excellent “objective” non biased work. However, many may disagree with him based on the backgrounds. But I can assure everyone that if one disagrees, it will be a very tough job to answer why one disagrees on objective grounds! Please do call him at 760-747-7577 . He will be here in san diego till this weekend. If you plan the events early enough you can get him to Washington dc. by organizing a group of people to chip in. I had arranged several talks in Sri Ranganatha Temple, Pomona, with the help of the board of Sri Ranganatha Seva Samithi. 1. comparitive estimate of three schools of Vedanta 2. gita , its essence 3. thiruppavai You can choose any topic you want and ask the local people to pitch in or even make a New Jersey / NY combined with Washington DC tristate area trip if you want. One thing is for certain, scholars like SMS Chari are very rare. His approach, particularly on the aspect of “fairness” to all systems of Vedanta while evaluating them, makes him stand out. Obviously his medium of speech being English helps. Adiyen Krishna -----Original Message----- From: K. Sadananda [mailto:sada@anvil.nrl.navy.mil] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:51 AM To: bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com; kkalale1@san.rr.com Cc: msadananda@hotmail.com Subject: aatma saakshaatkaaram Dear learned members, I need an answer to the following question. As per gita, Is atmasakshataram absolutely necessary for one to start bhakti yoga? If not why not - prove using slokas from gita + commentaries. As per upanisads can it be established unmistakably, that atmasakshatkaram is absolutely needed for bhakti yoga? If so provide detailed quotes and these quotes should be unmistakable and generally agreeable to wider audience, (in the sense strongly provable.) I am having the time of my life discussing gita with sri SMS chari who is writing a new book on Gita. His book will be something very unique. I don't think a similar book has been written before. Adiyen krishna Krishnanji - Namaskara-s. I saw the information of Shree SMS Chari. Please convey my shaashhTanga praNaams. I am wondering if he can find sometime to spend in Washington D.C. I will be honored to host him. I will try to call him this evening if I may. About the topic you raised. Obviously from my background I cannot appreciate logically any seeing of grossified form of the Lord. - Hence it is rightly called aatma saakshaat kaaram - The Mundaka U. mantra declare the nature of the reality as - yat adresham agraaHam agotram avarNam, akshakshu shotram tada paanai paadam| nityam vibhuH sarvagatim sasuukshmam, yat bhuuta yonim paripastyanti dhiiraaH|| It can not be seen -He is everywhere and very subtle - yet it says dhiiraaH paripasyanti - those who are possessed of proper dhii can perceive! - and Giita says: maya tata midam sarvam jagdvyaka muurtinaa| masthaani sarva bhuutaani na cha aham teshu avasthittaH|| - He pervades in an unmanifested form. both Giita and upanishads declare - He is smaller than the smallest and bigger than the biggest In contrast in purusha suukta it says - sahasra shhiirshaa purushaH- sahasraakshaat sahasra paat - In Giita - sarvataH paaNi paadam tat sarvataH askhi shirormukham| sarvataH shshrutimat loke yet it is sarvam aavR^itya tishhTati| and also sarva indriya guNa abhaasam sarva indriya guNa visarjitam asaktam sarvabHR^it cha eva, nirguNam guNabhoktR^i cha|| These contradictions are indicative of that nature of the reality can only be perceived by the meditative mind. If Bhakti is defined as the love towards this higher reality, the love needs a well defined locus. Without proper locus - mentally - one cannot develop true love. I cannot love gaagabuubu since I do not know what that gaagaabuubu is. Hence for bhakti to be crystallized one has to have a clear vision of the object of love. That is aatma saakshaatkaaram in my understanding. Lack of clear vision causes lack of appropriate bhakti. The more I know about the object of my love the more focused the love will be. Personally I do not subscribe bhakti means doing some ritual or exercises without clear vision to whom I am praying. But that is not a waste either since it could possibly (underline possibly) lead to more understanding of the nature of the reality, if I have proper guidance or if this is supported by the study of prabhandha-s. From my point aatmasaakshaatkaaram or clear vision of the object of my love is needed for the love to focus. Otherwise it will be dissipated. I realize that vishhTaadvaitic interpretation of Bhakti as Vedantic Technical word may be different but logic of devotion should be the same. The true love towards higher or Bhakti should involve less agitations in the mind hence becomes 'self-focussing' towards the object of bhakti. That is possible with the clear vision or aatmasaatshatkaaram of the Lord who is the object of Bhakti. Without that it gets de-focussed - but as with all sadhana-s this vision becomes clear as one gets more and more involved - snow-ball effect. To me Bhakti and sharaaNaagati are not different - sharaaNagati is the ultimate of the Bhakti. One can surrender only if one has the love ultimate and that happens not by will but by Love, where the surrender, the ego, himself is surrendered at the alter of the Bhakti. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------------------------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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