FW: Digest bhakti.v004.n219
From the Bhakti List Archives
• February 9, 2000
Dear Mani Can you please post this question for me. I am experiencing difficulty in doing this.? Thanks Venkatesa Dasan :Dear Sampath Kumar and other bhaghavathas : :Here is my question. : :CAN YOU PLEASE COME BACK WITH THE :FOLLOWING:- : (i) WHETHER THEY CREATE HUMAN BABY WITHOUT ANY MALE OR FEMALE EGGS FROM :ANYBODY? :(ii) WHETHER THEY USE ANY ARTIFICIAL INTELEEGENCE LIKE IN ROBOT BUT :IMPLEMENT A EXACT HUMAN LIKE BODY? :(iii) IN THE CASE OF DOLLY (CLONNED COW) WHAT WAS THE METHOD ADOPTED? :IF THE ABOVE DOUBTS OF MINE ARE CLEARED THEN I WILL ASK hh aNDAVAN WHO :RETURNS HERE BY THIS MONTH END AND LET YOU KNOW. : :I can come back with answers from HH Andavan (Sri Rangaramanuja :Mahadesikan) if you can supply answers to these questions. : :Venkatesa Dasan : :>Dear friends, :> :>Over the weekend adiyen and a few friendly neighours :>were casually discussing vast advances that are :>presently being made in the science of genetics. :> :>Ever since 1997 when scientists in UK first created :>"Dolly", the clone of a cow, further strides have been :>made in the capability of genetically turning out even :>human babies! People are saying that today there is :>enou :... -----Original Message----- From: bhakti-errors@lists.best.com [mailto:bhakti-errors@lists.best.com] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:01 PM To: bhakti@lists.best.com Subject: Digest bhakti.v004.n219 + SrI: + SrI SrInivAsa parabrahmaNE nama: + AzhvAr tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam; emberumAnAr tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam + dEsikan tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam; jIyar tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam This is the digest for the Bhakti mailing list, dedicated to discussions of Sri Vaishnavism and Visishtadvaita Vedanta. Please use this list to engage in informal dialogue with others interested in these topics. This group is meant for personal enrichment -- please feel free to ask questions and share your opinions in the spirit of learning from one another. See the end of this message to find out how to subscribe and post to the list. -------------- BEGIN bhakti.v004.n219 -------------- 001 - narayanan.k.m@in.pwcgloba - Mumookshapadi -Thirumantra Prakaranam Part-XII 002 - Ramakrishnan Kazhiyur-Man - Seeming Contradiction 003 - sampath kumarSubject: Seeming Contradiction Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 12:50:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BD327E77D438A55995166A7E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BD327E77D438A55995166A7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Members, This question has been nagging me for quite some time now. Our religion is one which allows a lot of individualism in approach to the Lord and in the method of worship. In fact, to my knowledge, there is no mandatory worship at all in the religion. Any method of worship that is there, was given only as a suggestion and there is always your own way of worshipping or considering the Lord. However, in our Vaishnava sampradayam, the role of the Acharyan is one of a guide to Lord. There is a no contradiction here. But going a bit further, our sampradayam says that the Acharyan is the ONLY way to His feet. There, in my view, comes the contradiction. How can there be a total dependency on another person's advice in a religion that emphasises so much individualism? I would like to have your learned comments on this question. Best regards Ramakrishnan Kazhiyur-Mannar -- --------------BD327E77D438A55995166A7E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="kazhiyur-mannar.1.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ramakrishnan Kazhiyur-Mannar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="kazhiyur-mannar.1.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kazhiyur-Mannar;Ramakrishnan tel;fax:1-614-292-2911 tel;home:1-614-294-7891 tel;work:1-614-292-8578 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~ramakris org:The Ohio State University;Computer and Information Sciences Dept version:2.1 email;internet:kazhiyur-mannar.1@osu.edu title:Teaching Associate adr;quoted-printable:;;Room 474 - 17, Dreese Labs=0D=0A2015, Neil Avenue;Columbus;Ohio;43210;The United States of Americs fn:Ramakrishnan KM end:vcard --------------BD327E77D438A55995166A7E-- --------------- MESSAGE bhakti.v004.n219.3 --------------- From: sampath kumar Subject: Re: A Question Related to The Notion of Karma Mukti Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 05:17:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Venkat, You wrote: > Dear Bhagavatas, > 1.mukti as related to suguna Brahman or nirguna > Brahman is real only in an illusory sense; i.e. both > are impermanent. > 2. The individual who has attained mukti, with > respect to suguna Brahman, is in a state of bliss, > but is still under the influence of avidya. > Whereas, the individual who has attained mukti, with > respect to the nirguna Brahman, is in a state of > bliss, but is also free from the influence of avidya > (except for the trace.) > Venkat Pardon what may sound to you as rather naive questions which adiyen however can't help asking: (1) When one has attained "mukti" one is said (by definition) to have have attained "liberation" from all infirmities of mortal existence which includes "avidya". Is it conceivable that a soul can attain "mukti" and still labour under "avidya"? Doesn't it appear to be a contradiction in terms? (2) Secondly, attaining "Brahmam" (the ultimate, unitive and non-differentiated experience), adiyen has learnt, is a typically advaitic concept. Making a fine distinction now, as you have done, between the experience of "Brahmam" in its "nirguna" state and in its "suguna" state falls right into the advaitin's trap. It amounts to trying to "differentiate the un-differentiated One". Don't you think the advaitin is likely to turn around and argue that the "suguna brahman" (the experience of "qualities")is not the ultimate "Brahman" in his scheme of things since such a state of "brahmic" experience is less than truly unitive? dAsan, Sampathkumaran __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------- MESSAGE bhakti.v004.n219.4 --------------- From: "A.Bharat" Subject: Re Life of Kuresan Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:42:17 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear BhAgavatOttamas, ADiyEn had the good fortune to learn Bhagavadvishayam through kAlakshEpa under the feet of Sri BhoovarAhAchAriAr SwAmin,and there was never even a hint of a doubt about the seniority in years of SrI KUrattAzhvAn.The incident refered to below by SrI sampathkumAran refers obviously to the Seniority due to Guru-Sishya relashionship in respect of EmberumAnAr. That aside- the passage quoted in English by Sri Sampathkumaran occurs on page 228 of The Life of Ramanujacharya by Sri Alkondaville Govindacharya (1906).There, while the rest of it is in the author's own words,the actual quotation from Sri Bhagavadvishayam is mentioned thus: (On page 2527,Vol.V of the Telugu edition of the Bhagavadvishaya, the conversation is thus recorded:- "While I am yet here,son,how wert thou anxious for Heaven?" "Sire" said Kuresa,"in the depth of my thoughts for the miseries of earthly existence,I forgot this point.Pray forgive me." etc) This is actually an accurate translation of the Arumbada-urai of Eedu 5:10.PravESam, EXCEPT THAT in the original text the word "son" does NOT occur.The word used there is "AzhvAn!" The use of the word "son" throughout this passage is done by the author of that book (which actually is an outstanding one with many valuable quotations from inscriptions)who probably never visualised a controversy such as this.Or maybe he also really thought Sri KUrattAzhvAn was younger to Udaiyavar! Sri EmberumAnAr TiruvaDigaLE SaraNam! aDiyEn BHARAT ________________________________________________________________ >To this Ramanuja is reported to have replied,"Dearson, my beloved azhwAn, thou art my soul, how can I part with thee? While I am yet here, son, how can you be anxious for heaven?". (Page 2527 of Vol 5 of "Bhagavatvishayam"). In the above passages, Ramanuja clearly addresses Kuresan as "son". And Kuresan too clearly talks of younger brothers preceding "elders" to heaven. --------------- MESSAGE bhakti.v004.n219.5 --------------- From: sampath kumar Subject: "genetic engineering" and religion Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:28:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear friends, Over the weekend adiyen and a few friendly neighours were casually discussing vast advances that are presently being made in the science of genetics. Ever since 1997 when scientists in UK first created "Dolly", the clone of a cow, further strides have been made in the capability of genetically turning out even human babies! People are saying that today there is enough knowledge and competence to enable scientists to clone a full-fledged human being. All that holds the genetic scientist back are ethical considerations and legal hurdles. Once these hurdles are overcome genetic manufacturing of human beings is likely in the first decade of the new millenium itself. In the course of the discussion the following questions also figured which adiyen is, out of a sense of curiosity and academic interest, putting out on the bhakti-list to elicit comments and views of members: (1) What is stand of the Vedic religion to human cloning? Is the clone also a "baddha-jeeva"? (2) Will present day religious leaders like Sankaracharya, Azhagiyasingar and others support human cloning or condemn it? Why and on what theological grounds? (The Christian Church has come out against human cloning, by the way. But then the Church was also against the heliocentric view of the universe when Copernicus first came out with that theory!) (3) A human clone represents an exact biological replica of the original. Is it a "spiritual-replica" too? Does it have the "same" atomic soul ("aatmA") too? Or is the clone to be treated as insentient... a "jada"? (4) If the human soul can be said to be 'cloned' then isn't such cloning a bit like "srushti" or creation itself? Has Man finally become God? (5) If the original soul (aatmA) has a load of "karma" upon it, then, does the soul of the cloned human also have similar "karma"? Or does the clone start its "kArmic" journey afresh from the first moment of its cloned creation and existence? (6) Do the "punya" and "pApa"... sin and good deed... of the original human attach to the clone? And vice versa? Are the cloned and the clone mutually responsible for each other's actions in a moral sense? (7) If the original human attains 'liberation' or 'mOksha' will the clone also similarly attain it? If not why not? These are all questions which may sound "hypothetical", "far-fetched" or even whimsical. But let it be known that profound changes are taking place in the world of genetic science which are sooner than later bound to have enormous impact on our age-old notions and concepts of religion and morality. Religion must wake up to these new realities and begin to formulate its own responses to such difficult questions of faith and moral conundrums. Any views, thoughts or comments? dAsan, Sampathkumaran __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------- MESSAGE bhakti.v004.n219.6 --------------- From: "Lakshmi N. Srinivasa" Subject: Appeal from Pon Vilainda Kalathur - Chaturbujam Ramar Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:29:48 PST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Adiyen is forwarding an email from my friend on an appeal to bhakti list. Adiyen Lakshminarasimhan Sri : Sri Ramajayam Sri Seetha Lakshmana Bharatha Shatrugna Hanumath Sametha Sri Raghunandana Parabrahmane Namaha Appeal for Sri. Kothanda Ramar Koil, PonVilantha Kalathur ========================================================= Appeal in Tamizh (appeal in english and more information follows) ----------------------------------------------------------------- " Sri : Sri Ramajayam Sri Seetha Lakshmana Bharatha Shatrugna Hanumath Sametha Sri Raghunandana Parabrahmane Namaha Sri Kothandaramar & Sri Dharbhasayana Sethuramar Kainkarya Sabha P.V.Kalathur Pon Vilaintha Kalathur Sri Parankusapura Agraharathil Thirukkoil kondu ezuntharuliyirukkum Sri Kothanda ( Paatbhi ) Raman Sannidhi, Giramam erpatta Athi kalathileye Ayirakkanakkaana varushangalunku mun " Giramathuku merke Vishnu Koyilum, Vadakizakil Sivabiranin Koyilum irukkavendum " engira Girama lakshanathirku ettra muraiyil merpadi giramathil avatharitha mahan- galal kattpattu Vishnu Koilil Sri Pattabhi (Kothand) Ramarum, Sivan Koilil Sri Munkudumeeswararum prathistai seyvikkappattanar. Mathhiyil kalapakalathil chinnabinnamakkappatta merpadi Ramar Koyilai sumar 500 varushangalukku munbu Sri Ahobhilamadathil Munravathu pattathai alangaritha Sri Parankusa Yatheendra Mahadesikan Jeernotharanam seyvithu Kancheepuram Thoopul Sir Vethantha Desikan avathara sthalathil thirukkoil kondu ezuntharuli- yirukkum thivya desa emberumanagiya " vilakkoli perumal " enum Deepaprakasarin theertha parigrahathudan " puna : Prathistai " seytharulinar. Piragu merpadi madathil Aravathu pattathil moorthabhishiktharai ezuntharuliyiruntha Sri Sashta Parankusa Yatheendra Mahadesikan intha sannidiyai marupadiyum Jeernotharanam seyvithu tham prathistai seyvitha Aru agraharangalil Ivvagraharathaiyum onraga brahmavasthu muraiyil manthira poorvakamaga prathistai seyvithu thamathu Acharyan thretheeya parankusa yatheedra mahadesikanudaiyavum, thammudaiyathu- magiya podu thirunamathiye manathe kondu " Parankusapuram " enru intha agraharathirku peyaritta vishayam migavum prasitthamanathuminri Sri Ahobhila madathu dasthavejukalilum nalthu thethiyilum kankoodagak kanbathrkuriyathu. thavira Mamallpuramenum Kadalmalai Thalsayanathemberuman theertha parigrahamum undu. Thaviravum, Ivvoril Nalavenba ezuthiya pugazh pettra kavichakravarthy Sir Pugazenthipulavarum, Koothuva Nayanarum, Anthakakavi Veerararagha mudaliyarum Arumugappavalarum Padikkasutthampiranum avatharithullanar. Melum Sri Ahobhila Madathil 35 vathu pattathai alngarithavarum " Kalikarnan" enap pugazhpettravarumana Sri Kalathur Azagiya Singar, Srivan Satakopa Sri Ranganatha Yatheendra Maha Desikanum thamizh nattuth thatha ena azaikapatta pettravarum Congress Maha Sabhhaiyai arambithu namathu thai nattin viduthalaikku adikkolittavargaili oruvarumana desiyavathi Desiyavathi Selam Dr C Vijayaraghavachariyar avargalum ivvooril athilum parankusa agraharathil avatharitha mahangal enbathu pattri nam migavum perumaipadakoodiaya vishayam. Enave, merkurippitta vidhathil migavum prasiddipettra nam ooril adhiyil thonriya Sri Kothanda (Pattabhi) raman sanndihiyin melthalam pazuthadainthu mazaikallangalil nirkasivu erpadukirathu. Angangu pazuthu erpattullana. Melum 09-10-1989 anru Sri Seethai Anjaneyar silaikal kalavadappattu acchilaigal meendum kidaithu acchilaigal sithilamadainthapadiyal meendum pudiya silaigal ithuvarai prathistai seyyapadavillai. Agave merpadi silaigali pudidhaga nirmanithu prathisthtai seythal, koyilin thalathai seersaythal ulpakka suvargalukku vannam poosudhal suttru prakarangalin tharaipaguthiyai seer seythal, Angangu erpattulla pazhuthugalai seer seythal agiyavaigali Sri Kothandaram & Sri Dharbhasayana Sethuramar Kainkarya Sabha moolam niraivera vendum ena theermanikkapattullathu. Enave ithai kannurum bhaktargal intha kainkaryangalil pangettru Sri Chakravarthy thirumaganin poorana katakshathirku pathiraragumpadi anbudan kettukolgirom. ippadikku Sri Kothandaramar & Sri Dharbhasayana Sethuramar Kainkarya Sabha P V Kalthur - 603 405. Appeal in English (not an exact translation) -------------------------------------------- Sri : Sri Ramajayam SRI KOTHANDA RAMAR & SRI DHARBHASAYANA SETHURAMAR KAINKARYA SABHA NEW STREET, P.V.KALATHUR - 603 405. KANCHEEPURAM DIST. TAMILNADU. A HUMBLE APPEAL Ponvilaintha Kalathur Village is situated 10 Kms beyond south of Chengalpattu town and is connected by frequent buses from Chengal pattu. Lord Narayana casts HIS divinely shadow here form HIS abode of Sri Kothanda Ramar with Sri Seetha Devi, Sri Lakshmana and Sri Anjaneya. One 09-10-1989, some thieves burgled into the Sannidhi and took away the idol of goddess Sri Seetha Devi and Sri Anjaneya. The idols were traced and handed over to the temple later. However it was found unsuitable for reinstallation as they were damaged. Thanks to the philanthrophy of a local devotee, who has consented to bear the cost of new idols of Sri Seetha Devi and Sri Anjaneya which have been arranged to cast at Swamimalai and will be ready for holy installation ( Prathishta ). It is desired by the Sri Kothanda Ramar and Sri Darbhasayana Sethuramar Kainkarya Sabha. Ponvilaintha Kalathur to undertake the work of long felt renovations in the temple now like (i) weathering course over the ceiling of Ardha Mantapam (ii) replastering the Vimanam over 'Gabagraha' (iii) Covering the open space within the temple with Cement mortar in order to ensure safe movement of devotees (iv) painting the Vimanam and other places (v) erection of idols of Sri Rama Sri Seetha Sri Lakshmana and Sri Anjaneya in Cement mortar atop the entrance of the Ardha Mantapam (vi) and then to install the new idols of Sri Seetha Devi and Sri Anjeneya in the Kothanda Ramar Temple along with the existing idols of Sri Kothanda Ramar and Sri Lakshmana. A fairly large fund is required to undertake and complete the above items of renovation works. The Maha Samprokshanam ( Kumbhabhishekam) of Sri Kothanda Ramar Temple after the renovation is proposed to be performed on 16th March, 2000 (Thursday). The members of the Kainkarya Sabha / Asthikas who are desirous to contribute their mite to this divinely venture are requested to contribute liberally and be the receipient to the benevolent blessings of Sri Rama. All payments may be made by crossed Cheque/Demand Draft in favour of Sri Kothnda Ramar & Sri Dharbasayana Sethuramar Kainkarya Sabha payable at Ponvilanintha Kalathur and sent to Sri. S. Sampath Secretary, Sri Kothanda Ramar & Sri Dharbasayana Sethu Ramar Kainkarya Sabha, New Street, P.V.Kalathur - 603 405. (via ) Chengalpattu, Tamilnadu. Thanking you, SRI KOTHANDARAMAR & SRI DHARBASAYANA SETHURAMAR KAINKARYA SABHA , P.V. KALATHUR - 603 405. " More Information ---------------- Some information not mentioned in the appeals : * The Dharbhasayana Sethuramar Sannidhi was installed rather recently, only in the 20th century. The Urchava Vigraham - Sri Ramar was found in the well within the temple precincts and the same fact was revealed in the dreams of one of the devotees in kalathur. The vigraham has insription - "Danushkoti Ramar" in the kireetam. * The Moolavar of Dharbhasayana Sethuramar was installed by the grandsons of Selam vijayaraghavachariyar and the samprokshanam was performed by His Holiness The 44th Jeeyar of Ahobila Mutt. * The Pattabhi Ramar koil contains sannidhis for Sri Pattabhiramar (main sannidhi), Sri Srinivasar with Sridevi and Boodhevi, Thayar Sannidhi, Alwargal Sannidhi. * The BAALAALAYAM for the temple has been recently done. By this the original vigrahamoorthys' Aavahanam is done on paintings and Puja is done only for the paintings so that repair works etc can be done at the original garbhagrahams etc. * Very near to PVK, there is another village Ponpatharkoodam, where the deity Charthur Buja Ramar is also very famous. A few decades ago, a seperate Sannidhi for Anjaneyar was constructed by aDiyEn's grandfather, Sri Neeradi K Srinivasaraghavachariyar (whose sister's father-in-law is the great scholar - Sri SWARNAM SWAMY). aDiyEn was physically present at that time the vigrahams of Sri Seetha and Sri Anjaneya were moulded out in Swami Malai. The total expenses would go to at least around Rs. 4 lakhs. The only person active is one Mr. Santhanam who is employed in T N Electricity Board, at Chengalpattu. Strangely he does'nt belong to PVK but however has now built a house at PVK in New Street with plans of settling down their. In India, only those belonging to PVK might show some interest in this Appeal and even so they may not be able to contribute much. Therefore, your generous contributions would be of great help to re-establish this wonderful temple. PLEASE MAKE YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS PAYABLE IN THE NAME OF : SRI KOTHANDA RAMAR & SRI DHARBHASAYANA SETHURAMAR KAINKARYA SABHA (also, please provide your name and address for the receipts) PLEASE SEND THE CHEQUES TO : Address in India OR, Address in the US (of aDiyEn): (of aDiyEn's nephew): Sundar Rangachari Sriram Govindarajan F-1, Temple View Apts., 2920 Scioto Street, Apt. 703 14/15, Thyagaraya Gramani St., Cincinnati, OH 45219 T.Nagar, Chennai - 600017 Ph: 513-556-8443 INDIA. Email: sriram@ececs.uc.edu OR, you may directly send them to the SABHA in P.V.Kalathur. Thank you, aDiyEn, Sundar Rangachari ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------- MESSAGE bhakti.v004.n219.7 --------------- From: "Venkatesh Elayavalli" Subject: Re: Seeming Contradiction Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:20:11 PST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Sri Ramakrishnan, > Our religion is one which allows a lot of individualism in approach >to the Lord and in the method of worship. In fact, to my knowledge, >there is no mandatory worship at all in the religion. Any method of >worship that is there, was given only as a suggestion and there is >always your own way of worshipping or considering the Lord. This, in my opinion, is a generalization based on a corrupted view of the Advaitic traditions, which basically ended up pushing the idea of individualism. I do not want to go into the debate on why I feel so, here. However, in Vaishnava traditions, be it Sri Vaishnava or other branches of Vaishnavam, temple worship is very important. The very fact that all 11 out of 12 alwars performed mangalaasaasanam at various temples is a standing example of the importance of worship and saranagathi. > However, in our Vaishnava sampradayam, the role of the Acharyan is >one of a guide to Lord. There is a no contradiction here. But going a >bit further, our sampradayam says that the Acharyan is the ONLY way to >His feet. There, in my view, comes the contradiction. How can there be a >total dependency on another person's advice in a religion that >emphasises so much individualism? > Again, here I believe you are mixing the two traditions (viz, advaitic and visitadvaitic). That said, YOU DO NEED AN ACHARYA for the advaitic tradition too, to understand how the individual realization (jivan-mukti) can be attained. The distinction is in the word ONLY. we give more importance to the Acharya, who has the responsibility to deliver the sishya to the Lord (saranagathi). However, this is not a must with the other system, which gives importance to Gnyana yoga and depends totally on the individual. So the effort by the acharya in such a tradition is limited. In our Sampradhayam, we believe that Lord has some qualities and with the acharya's blessings (and his prapatti on behalf of the Sishya) one can get moksham. there are many works that address this: PVP's Manikka maalai, Pillai Lokacharyas Artha panchakam, etc. These discuss the relationship between the Lord and the jiva and how an acharya can make a difference. the bottom line is the concept of saranagati that differentiates between our tradition and the rest. Adiyen Venkatesh K. Elayavalli Cypress Semiconductor Data Communications Division 3901 N. First St. MS 4 Phone: (408) 456 1858 San Jose CA 95134 Fax: (408) 943 2949 email: elayavalli@hotmail.com (external) Home Page Location: http://www.srivaishnava.org ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------- END bhakti.v004.n219 --------------- Administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe, etc.) are handled automatically by sending mail to: + bhakti-request@lists.best.com Send a message containing the word "help" (no quotes) to this address for more information. The address to send postings to this list is: + bhakti@lists.best.com Hitting the REPLY key on your mail reader may *not* be enough. Please verify the address before you send your message. List articles are archived on the Web at + http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives If you are having problems, you can send me email at mani@best.com. + SrImate rAmAnujAya nama:
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