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Re: gyAtRtva, kaRtRva and bhOktRtva

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kuntimaddi sadananda • August 1, 2002 


--- Malolan R Cadambi  wrote:
. Sri M Ananthasayanam Iyengar explains that
> while advaita says that avidya affects the paramatma (who is defined
> as satyam, **jnAnam**, anantam), visisthadvaita correctly says that
> avidya affects the jiivatma and not the paramatma perse.
 
> [ From Advaita's standpoint this is a rather tricky technical issue.
>   Advaitins differ as to whether the locus of avidya is Brahman or
>   the jIva.  The Vivarana commentary takes the locus to be Brahman
>   and the Bhamati takes the locus to be the jIva. No doubt there are
>   logical difficulties in either theory.  Further, in Advaita, the
>   paramAtman is the non-dual Brahman with sattva guNa superimposed.
>   In all cases the subject of the avidya, i.e., the individual who
>   practically speaking is affected by avidya, is the jIva, since it
>   is the jIva who is the subject of bheda. Since this is an idealistic
>   viewpoint it is not quite correct to say that avidya "affects"
>   the paramAtman since the very idea of the paramAtman is a result
>   only of the jIva's affliction by bheda or difference.
> 
>   Those well-versed in Advaita like Sri Sadananda can correct me if
>   I am wrong -- Moderator ]
>

Yes Moderator is right. If avidya affects paramaatma then paramaatma is no more paramaatma.  There
is lot of misunderstanding of the adviatic position. Yes there are two schools of thought and some
of the misinterpretation came from post adviatic scholars.  Bhaavaruupa avidya is mostly post-
Shankara postion which Bhagavaan Ramanuja rightly criticizes in his Shree Bhaasya. Conceptually
'ignorance' is not some positive to cover anything. Ignorance is only absence of knowledge - or
abhaava ruupam. Avidya in terms of 'ignorance' is only centered on jiiva -Since it is jiiva who is
the one who does not know - this is true in both advaitic and vishishhTaadviatic traditons. 

Also avidya is beginningless - this is also true in both traditions and logically it should be so
since there cannot be any beginning for ignorance.  I cannot say my ignorance of chemistry started
at some point in time - yet the beginningless avidya can have an end when knowledge is gained. But
even the concept of beginnig or end are concepts of time and time itself is considerd as part of
the jagat - as space-time continuum. That which is beyond the cause-effect is beyond the concept
of time too.  

This is one of the reasons why avidya cannot be of bhaavaruupa or tangible thing to have a
beginning. At paramaatma level the samething is referred to maaya - as power of the Lord.  At
Brahman level all these concepts have no relavence in adviatic tradition since - sat eva soumaya
idam agram asiit - ekam eva advitiiyam -is interpreted with pure existence conscious infiniteness
or bliss is understood as with no sajaati vijaati swagata bhedaas while vishishhTadviata considers
swagata  or  bhedaas or internal differences - jiiva, jagat and paramaatma.   In adviatic
tradition a distinction is made in terms of Brahman and paramaatma - levels. One is absolute
non-differentiated infinite sat chit ananda saruupa-Nothing further can be said about it. The
other is Iswara or more similar to Lord Narayana -the jagat kaaraNa. 

How and when jiiva comes into picture due to avidya is inexplainable or part of anirvachaniiyam
which Bhagavaan Ramanuja criticizes  as well in his Shree Bhaasya.  It is like seed/tree situation
- which comes first - it is anirvachaniiyam - One way to look at it is when the house on fire do
not sit down and sart inquiring how did this fire start etc. First thing to do is to get out of
the house and then inquire about it.  But once one gets out of the house there is neither the
house nor fire to inquire about. The very logic of inquiry fails here since - naishaa tarkena
matiraapaneya says the shruti - one cannot logically establish the fact. Hence it is
anirvachaniiyam at the level of intellect.  
I prefer not to dwell further on this in this list. I am hoping to write notes on Shree Bhaasya
from my perspective. I am still learning though.  I find Shree S.M.S. Chari mama's books are most
revealing and easily understandable. 

Hari OM!
Sadananda



=====
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