Re: Dreams as explained by discussion on pramAnas
From the Bhakti List Archives
• April 17, 2000
Dear Bhagavtas/Sri. Venkatraman, Sri. Venkatraman Wrote: > What I feel is cognition plays only a role of a medium of understanding in an experience and not a role of a cause because without cognition there is no talk about experience itself. It's only a medium and it should be there. Response: Objects by themselves are not capable of being catalysts; it is direct sense contact that gives rise to cognition (direct sense contact either at the time of cognition or at some earlier point in time.) Thus, it is not the object that is the cause of a real effect, but rather the cognition triggered by direct sense contact (contact either at the time of cognition or at some earlier point in time.) KEY POINT: There is no question of talking about effect independent of cognition. For example, suppose one shuts off all his sense organs; some time after that, an object is placed before that individual. Can the object act as a catalyst? No! > You said that "cognition is real and hence only real objects can cause real experience". This is a partial statement. I feel here you are generalising by using the term "real objects" which in this case means only cognition which is internal. Response: Please note, we are discussing a topic that belongs in a metaphysical paradigm. Your are using notions belonging to a empiricist/logical positivist paradigm. One cannot provide an empirical proof in matters that are beyond the realm of senses. Only proof by inference is available. (In fact strictly speaking all proofs are proofs by inference. That is a whole different matter however.) It is very important to keep in mind the paradigm in which one is discussing matters or else the discussion will go nowhere. It is fine to disagree, but the disagreement must be framed within the paradigm in which the discussion is taking place. >The question remains as to whether unreal external objects can give rise to cognition. If answer is yes, then "unreal objects can give rise to cognition and hence real experience". Response: When one is confronted with a rope-snake, either a rope-snake cognition, which is different from a real snake cognition, arises, or a rope-snake cognition, which is the same as a real-snake cognition, arises. In either case, it is a real object that leads to a real effect. That is, if the rope-snake cognition differs from a real snake cognition then it cannot be considered illusory. Ramanuja dasan, Venkat ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get paid for the stuff you know! Get answers for the stuff you donÂ’t. And get $10 to spend on the site! http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/2/_/716111/_/955985214/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list@eGroups.com Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information
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