From: Vasudha Narayanan Subject: medley of madals I have really enjoyed the conversations and have learned so much from them. I would only like to add that there is a marvellous example of madal in kuruntOkai 17 -- the following is a translation by A.K. Ramanujan: When love is ripe beyond bearing and goes to seed, men will ride even palmyra stems like horses; will wear on their heads the reeking cones of the erukkam bud like flowers; will draw to themslves the gossip of the streets; and will do worse. There are some beautiful verses on madal in thiruvaaymozhi (5.3.9 and 5.3.10). naaNum niRaiyum kavarndhennai nannencham koovikkondu, sENuyar vaanath thirukkum dhEva piraan_dhannai, aaNaiyen thOzhee! ulagu thORalar thooRRi,aam kONaigaL seythu kudhiriyaay madaloordhumE. 5.3.9 yaamada loorndhum emmaazhiyangaip piraanudai, thoomadal thaNNam thuzhaaymalar kondu sooduvOm, yaamada minRith theruvu thORayal thaiyalaar, naamadaNG kappazhi thooRRi naadum iraikkavE. 5.3.10 A very loose (partial) translation follows: Overwhelming my modesty, my chastity, stealing my heart, the Lord of the divine ones is in the high heavens. My friend, this I swear: I shall shock all earth, I shall do weird (kONaikaL) deeds, and ride the palmyra stem [like a horse]. With no sense of shame, I shall ride that palmyra stem through every street in town .... And I shall get from my Lord, who holds the discus in his splendid hand, a cool blossom from the tuzhai plant and adorn myself with it.... The alvars do recognize that while it is not gender-correct (according to traditional Tamil culture) for them to adopt a madal and be vociferous about their divine passion for Visnu, there are other examples of women from northern India who were very articulate in expressing their love. These women -- Vasavadatta, Sita, Vegaathi, Usha and Uma-- become the role models for the alvar (Periya Tirumadal, lines 39-70 something?). It is my understanding that the madal was an extreme step and generally even threatening it brought about results-- the town people would prevail upon the girl's family to allow the marriage to take place. Thanking you once again for your discussions, Vasudha Narayanan