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RE: chitranchiru kaale!!

From the Bhakti List Archives

M.G.Vasudevan • September 25, 2002 


Dear sri vaishnava perunthagaiyeer,

Since Sri Nanmaran has put across a point related to grammar, I also would
like to put forth the following on the grammar front on the same paasuram
which is under discussion in the list.

First the back ground.

In paasuram 28 the last line is iraivaa nee thaaraai parai - meaning - oh
god please give me the 'parai' - grammatically here it is a request by the
first person to the second person. 

[ the first person can be singular or plural as per the context, which in
this case is 'to us' - being plural]

In paasuram 29 

first line 'vanthu unnai sEviththu' - meaning a first person [implied or
identified, may be singular or plural- in the present context plural - as
understood from the word engaLai in next line] came and did the prostration
to the second person. 

Next is "Un poRRaamarai adiyE pORRum --  kELaai" - again the first person
request/s the second person to listen what he/ she / they are doing -
'please listen to the sthOthram which I am / we are doing'.

"PeRram mEiththu uNNum kulaththil piRanthu nee kuRREval engalai" - here
again second person 'nee' and first person 'engaLai' are involved in
conversation in this line.

'IRRaip paRai koLvaan' - from the first and second persons involved in the
previous lines, suddenly the gear or scene changes to third person singular
in masculine gender. 

	actually the person/s who came and did all the sthOthram are women,
as we know from previous 28 paasurams. 
	Further iRRai is today - inRu - so present tense is to be used
whereas what is used is 'koLvaan' is future tense. 

Next line again changed to anRu kaaN gOvindhaa - again between first person
and second - 'hey gOvindhaa - please see'.

Next - 'un thannOdu uravEl namakku' - yet once again between first and
second person.

Last line - 'maRRai nam kaamangaL maaRRu' - again a command to the second
person by the first person.

Why then suddenly a third person is introduced and that too in masculine
gender, rather than feminine in the line 'IRRaip paRai koLvaan'?

Since I am not strong in tamil grammar, I request learned bhagavathaas to
elucidate. 

To add a few lines on TCA venkatesan's point that whether it is all that the
meaning what Sri PC swamy has given for the 'chiRRam siru kaalE'
	no. 
	Sri Swamy has really more than 15 points on this chiRRam siru kaalE
and one among them is this point of siru am siru kaal.
	In that quote also from 'kOzhi --- up to the point of 'siRidhE
velippatta azhagiya siRiya kaal' is by sri PC swamy 
	later points relating to daddy and daughter are by MGV in enjoying
that krishNa which he wanted to share with all.

No offences meant to any body or any of the poorvaacharyaas, or their
vyaakhyaanams intentionally or unintentionally except to get an elucidation
on the grammar front.
 
Dhasan 

Vasudevan m.g.



	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Nanmaaran [SMTP:nanmaaran@yahoo.com]
	Sent:	Saturday, September 21, 2002 10:59 AM
	To:	bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	Re: chitranchiru kaale!!

	Dear Friends,
	Moreover, according to tamil ilakkiyam rules, same word for same
meaning should not be used in a song. That is "kooriyathu kooRal"
(punaruddhi) which is not allowed. So let us not introduce flaw in Great
Andal's paasuram and defame her in literary values.
	Regards, Nanmaaran

	Hari Krishnan wrote:I agree with you. It is not possible by rules of
grammar to interpret chitranchiru kaale as 'the feet of the Lord.' Though
there is still scope for the singular to represent a pair (as questioned in
another mail - like 'un adi saranE' adi (singular) representing the feet, it
is not possible to use the adjective 'chitranchiru' to feet. Let it me make
it very short now for constraints of time. We know that the words 'paadhi'
and 'arai' represent half. One cannot say 'paadhi mani' for half an hour. If
the adjective is for the feet, it should have been 'chinnam siru kaale' and
not 'chitram siru kaale.'


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