Search:
Bhakti List Archives

Re: Free-will vs Pre-determination (Ramanuja)

From the Bhakti List Archives

Lakshmi Narasimhan Venkatapathy • August 19, 2002 


Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
I have few things to add to this mail, that need clarification. If 
pre-determination exists then God becomes partial. I.E it might look like he 
wants only people like alwars and acharyas to attain moksham and that is why 
he made them. If it is free-will, it is only karma that makes us obtain 
results - here when I say karma, it is not just one person's karma- it is 
the combined effort of karmas of everyone. We know God, the brahman is 
impartial, so pre-determination is ruled out. But if it were just free-will 
then the concept of antharyamithvam i.e he is the niyanta i.e the inner 
controller and that he does everything - is again ruled out. If 
pre-determination doesn't exist, predictions cannot be done. Nammazhwar 
foresaw Ramanujar's birth and sang "poliga poliga poliga". We've seen 
Nostradamus' predictions done centuried ago are still being proved to be 
happening. If free-will do not exist the concept of karma becomes mayai. :) 
sounds like a paradox?! Both do exist and both do not exist? We need some 
strong, clear explanations with appropriate references from our sampradayam 
and siddhantham i.e from the ubhaya vedas. Learned scholars please clarify 
this.
Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,
Lakshmi Narasimhan


>From: Bhashyam Raghunandan 
>Reply-To: bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
>To: bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Free-will vs Pre-determination (Ramanuja)
>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:29:56 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Srimathe Ramanujaaya Namah:
>
>For a while let us asume that what the jivatman thinks
>as freewill is nothing but the "scripted will".  Now
>with this assumption, I seek answers for the following
>questions.
>
>1. What is karma?
>2. If the jivatman is acting on a predetermined will
>of the Eshwara, then how is the jivatma
>enjoying/suffering the fruits of the karma?
>3. How is that the jiva takes the blames [suffers the
>dosha] for all the wrong doings in his life, starting
>from small theft to anything more serious if it was
>scripted by the Eshwara?
>4. Is it not incorrect on the part of Eshwara to make
>the jivatman suffer for all the mistakes that he did
>not do on his own?!
>5. What is anaadi karma vaasana and ruchi?
>6. If the Eshwaran is scripting all the actions for
>us, why is he struggling to get us out of this cycle
>of birth and death?
>
>adiyen Ramanuja Dasan
>raghunandan
>--- jasn sn  wrote:
> > SRIMATHE  RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.
> >
> > The analysis continuesÂ…
> >
> > Based on the responses received so far, certain
> > clarifications are given here:
> >
> > # Freewill must not be equated with positive effort.
>[...]
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>            - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
>To Post a message, send it to:   bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
>Group Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bhakti-list
>Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÂ’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



--------------------------------------------------------------
           - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
To Post a message, send it to:   bhakti-list@yahoogroups.com
Group Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bhakti-list
Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/